It should be more specific, they should not be allowed a smartphone in school at all. But a phone, yes definitely. In europe it's a lot more common to send your kids alone to school, so I definitely think they should have a simple phone.
But at the same time I want them to go to school without any smartphone, I want them to feel that freedom from social media at least during the school day. Not just that school locks them up, but that they eventually learn to not even bring it.
> It should be more specific, they should not be allowed a smartphone in school at all. But a phone, yes definitely. In europe it's a lot more common to send your kids alone to school, so I definitely think they should have a simple phone.
That’s the usual policy here in France. Smartphones are not allowed at all. Dumb phones are but they can’t be taken out of the bags in the classroom, which makes sense. I am much more comfortable giving my kid a dumb feature phone as well. It’s enough to send text messages and call in an emergency, but it makes him less of a target for mugging.
That sounds dumb. Smartphones are a part of everyday life. Expecting kids to not use them is either doomed to fail, or worse, it will make sure they learn less about how to use them.
They may well be a part of your everyday life, and likely of the everyday lives of everyone you know, but what makes you think that smartphones are a part of the everyday lives of French schoolchildren?
And even if they were, how is it in any way harmful for smartphones to not be a part of the time they spend in school?
If nobody can use it at school, then overall it makes it probably less likely they will be owned or used at all. Then your kids risk falling behind and becoming as adept with technology as "old people" today. Not saying that this trade-off means that everyone should use smart phones all the time, but let's not act like this isn't a potential downside when they are a part of everyday life for French adults.
This is that digital natives fallacy again. Being familiar with the latest tiktok trends is as important as being up to date on the latest Jersey Shore was 15 years ago; which is to say not important at all really. These kids are consumers of entertainment. They aren't automatically developing any skills just because the vehicle of consumption is the pinnacle of computing evolution.
Most people never understand technology, but most young people do understand the zeitgeist of their age because they have a lot of free time and a strong desire to fit in. It's just their social world and pop culture are on a phone now.
Fully with you. All these kids do is play games, scroll tiktok and chat on snapchat. What possible "skill" are we talking about?
If anything, they have very low tech skills. They are consumers of apps highly optimized for convenience. They're never challenged, need to fix anything, solve a problem.
Getting over the fear of using these kinds of devices. Look at old people. At least around here there are plenty of them that are incapable of using basically anything more complicated than a TV. Some might be able to use computers, but can't really operate smartphones etc. And it's largely because they don't have experience and constantly avoid it.
When you momentarily pause your Tiktok addiction for a few hours during school hours and then happily continue afterwards, no potential new learning was missed.
> then overall it makes it probably less likely they will be owned or used at all
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. If it is useful, they will pick it up. I mean, most people alive did not have a smartphone before growing up, and yet most of us are using one without issue right now. You’re setting a child up for failure if he does not learn things like how to handle frustration or behave with other people when he grows up. Not how to operate a trivial device.
> Then your kids risk falling behind and becoming as adept with technology as "old people" today.
By the time they’re old, they will be as useless with the new technologies of the time as elderly are with computers now. Not because they did not learn it at school, just because you lose mental agility and adaptability as you age. Smartphones most likely will be a prehistoric anachronism by the time they get old.
> but let's not act like this isn't a potential downside when they are a part of everyday life for French adults.
Most French adults right now did not have a smartphone before they turned 20. They are managing just fine.
>I mean, most people alive did not have a smartphone before growing up, and yet most of us are using one without issue right now.
I know plenty of people that do not. They have a smartphone and they use some of the features like taking pictures, text messaging apps and calling, but doing other things is unlikely. When my mom gets a new phone she has someone else set it up for her, because she can't. My grandparents have probably never used a computer either.
Don’t worry, kids are not stupid. They’re perfectly able to learn once they’re in high school. Besides, I never said he never uses one. But not his own and certainly not at school. Operating a smartphone is something you can learn without trying. He’s got more important things to learn at school, which will be much more of a problem if he does not.
To my ears this sound about as sane as worrying that my kid will fall behind if he doesn't have the same access to opiates and stimulants as the other kids do.
At my primary school, we were encouraged to bring computers to the classroom. The school also had many classes full of computers, and laptops too - all older second-hand models, but that didn't matter. We used them during most "normal" classes - not just the IT class. My last year of school we also utilized smartphones since that became the next big thing around 2010. Today they hand out tablets instead of laptops.
Almost every one of my classmates works in tech now, or at least makes heavy use of computers/programming in their out-of-tech careers. Practically all of them make many times more than the national average wage.
No, this wasn't a school for gifted students - in my country we go to the school we're assigned based on our residence. Incredible luck I got where I was. I'm sure half of the kids would live a very shitty life had they lived few streets away, but luckily thanks to the computerized education they got, they were able to overcome their bad upbringing (alcoholic parents, etc).
It's very sad that someone thinks a global ban is in any way good. Sure, if they can't handle it - let the schools ban it. But a global ban that would prevent innovative schools and teachers from teaching about/with it? That sucks big time.
And I just don't get why the governments aren't rather thinking about how to integrate the tech into the class on national scale. This whole thing seems political to me - there are many conservatives that just hate modern tech pushing for this. The porn argument is stupid - porn is part of modern life, teach children about the dangers of it, or they will overdose on it once the leash is gone; and it's not like the kids don't have a phone after school, who the hell would masturbate in school anyways. Same with social media.
I do not believe that anyone, even a young child, can't "learn to use" a touchscreen device during the many hours of the day that he or she is not in school.
And I do think that children should be taught to use online resources wisely, almost certainly as part of a course on critical thinking.
To answer your question, NONE of my classmates did. It would be weird to lug your Apple II or Atari 800 to class with a monitor and extension cord! And our schools (USA) work the same way: Their quality is highly dependent on the neighborhood they're in.
Smartphones are very useful, but the effect that the constant flow of information stemming from smartphones has on children, and the distraction they cause in an educational setting, are absolutely not a natural part of humanity, and should be scrutinized more than it is.
One can argue about this until the cows come home, for example I didn't even finish school and some of the smartest people I know learned very little in school aside from social skills.
But schools have the difficult job of catering to at least a majority of children.
I went to school 2007-2012 so the laws might have changed since then, or this might have been illegal. In PE class one day, we all got changed and left our clothes and bags in the changing room, then while we were on the field doing sport the deputy headteacher went to the changing room and went through everyone's bags and blazers to find phones and valuables. He took them all and made everyone think they had been stolen.
He revealed it after five minutes of the class noticing things were missing, and said it was supposed to be a lesson about safety. How theft happens and we shouldn't have valuable items on us at school, and if we do then they should be locked away somewhere secure when we leave our bags somewhere.
I doubt that was actually the case, I think he was just trying to get an idea of how many people have smartphones, and who those people were. This was right when they were invented so it was very rare for a kid to have one when I was a first year, but every year more and more kids got them handed down from their parents.
As to the deputy head's given reason (a lesson about safety and guarding against theft), I'd tend to think that was his genuine reason. Theft of valuable personal items in a school is a major headache for the school. The police may get involved. The school doesn't want weaker-minded students being constantly exposed to the temptation, some succumbing to that temptation, and some getting caught and having to be expelled, etc. Better to make students aware of the risk and to have rules against students bringing valuable items to school.
Not without a reason, but suspecting you have a smartphone, or any other forbidden or dangerous item, is one. So in practice you’re fine if you don’t use it, show it, or brag about it.
Your use of highscool makes me think you're american, because you don't seem to understand the concept of kids going to school on their own. It doesn't matter if the school has the number to the parents if the kid is taking a 30 minute bus ride, or a 30 minute bicycle ride, to and from school themselves.
I'm French, I think lycée map highschool 1:1, so I used that term to not have to explain just that. Clearly it was a mistake, as I had to explain it in the end.
I, my parents, my cousins and my nephew and nieces all went/are going to school by ourselves by age 6-7. I do not think this change anything?
What on earth does their comment have to do with kids going to school on their own? And...using "highschool" makes them American? What, you want them to say lycée?
Lots of american high schoolers drive themselves, or walk, or bike, or take the school bus.
Yes many get driven by their parents. I used to drive mine before they were old enough to do it themselves because it was only a short detour off my way to work anyway, and if they had to take the bus they'd have to wake up nearly an hour earlier, and I thought the extra sleep for them was worth it.
Kids going to school on their own was the norm for generations in the USA, and until recently I thought it still was.
Now I see every child being DRIVEN to school in a separate vehicle by a parent, blockading entire neighborhoods around the school. It's pathetic and irritating as hell.
And we're talking about L.A., where you can't blame the weather. These kids are going to be helpless dweebs.
Really? Why? I drove my kid to school up until the point that he got his driver's license this year and could drive himself. He's not a helpless dweeb. In fact, he just caught a plane to DC to attend a high school summer program at Georgetown University. He didn't have any trouble navigating himself there. I didn't hear a word from the time he left the house until he called me to let me know he'd checked into the dorm five states away.
But at the same time I want them to go to school without any smartphone, I want them to feel that freedom from social media at least during the school day. Not just that school locks them up, but that they eventually learn to not even bring it.