Sure. Some candidates are extremely experienced in negotiation and know exactly how much they are worth. Those people should absolutely name numbers from the start to avoid having their time wasted. But those people also know who they are and know that they don't need to read advice about negotiation.

Most candidates have no idea what they're worth. Here's what I imagine is happening behind the scenes in your scenarios, assuming a normal candidate:

Scenario 1: Recruiter: Great news. The candidate was happy with the offer and I didn't even need to ask for permission to offer higher comp. It's always extra time and work when I have to ask for $x+$y+$z.

Scenario 2: Recruiter: Ha ha. This candidate has no idea what the market rate is. They must only be interviewing at crap companies. We'll offer the bottom of the pay band and they'll be overjoyed because it's 10% higher than they were asking for.

Scenario 3: Exactly the same as scenario 2, except there was a brief moment when the recruiter wondered if the candidate knew how much they could get.

> Even if it was less than what they would have paid, why should you care if you are happy

This is a weird argument. It seems like you're saying "these scenarios are fine even if they lose you money." I would argue that "you should care" because most people would, all things being equal, like more money. The point of a job offer negotiation is to optimize a few different variables, of which "money" is generally a (or the) primary one.

If saying a number first (as you do in all 3 of these scenarios) reduces the ultimate amount of money get (it generally does), you should not do that.

Mine almost always goes like this:

Recruiter: How much are looking for?

Me: Could you please provide a range for the role?

Recruiter: no, please let us know what you want

Me: relatively high but not crazy number

Recruiter: No, that's too high

Me (in my head): why did you ask me then

Me: Ok, please let me know what is reasonable

Recruiter: some number that may or may not be acceptable

Me: asks for a bit more if number was close to acceptable

IME you could have gotten the higher number if you'd avoided saying it.

Because you surrendered a number almost immediately, they have decided that you're inexperienced and so deserve less money.

I think a better strategy is to not answer: "OK, I think it's fine if you don't want to talk about salary right now. I'm sure you pay competitively. Let's focus on whether I'm a good fit with the team first."

After the engineering team has told the recruiter that they want to move forward with hiring you, you have more leverage to negotiate.

If you're finding that your opening bid is always rejected, it's probably because you don't know what's a good number to name. (Lots of people sneer at this but I don't think this is some failing on your part--companies pay tons of money for this kind of salary data which is how they know it.) In this case, you should just do anything you can to avoid naming a number first.

Sorry, I guess my brief summary wasn't clear, I basically do what you say and avoid the discussion as long as possible. You are 100% correct you are in a much better position when the technical folks want you vs some random recruiter.

Personally, I just wouldn't work with a recruiter who did that. That sort of behavior is a red flag to me.

What would you do instead? Ask for another recruiter?

I would tell them them I'm not interested in the position and just continue with my job hunt as I would have if I never spoke with them.

That negotiation sounds like the estimation process at some companies I have worked for.